All around updates, goals, pricing and shifting products
Lengthly update on what's happened in the last 2 months, during corona virus.
mileposts podcast - episode 11 - all around updates, goals, pricing and shifting products
this is another episode of the mileposts podcast. This is episode 11 and last episode I gave kind of a brief window into, the break in action for two months. So if you listen to these in sequence, It's almost like the covid-19 Corona virus. the real stressful two months did not occur while they did occur.
[00:00:26] I just didn't record anything for anything. during that time. so this, is going to be kind of an update episode. Talk a little bit about goals for Q3, a little retrospective on calls for a Q1. I meant goals for Q2. Obviously it's only may, kind of a new plan forward, a new optimistic plan forward for my business.
[00:00:53] Talk a little bit about pricing changes for the main product. A little musing on dev ops and Ruby development. If we have time, we'll riff on staying home with the kids and, how that's been
[00:01:15] in a future episode. I'll talk a little bit about physical fitness in, this spring, at least for me and what I'm looking forward to. And yeah, just kind of an update on a few of the products and what I've been up to over the last month, month and a half, two months. So in Q1, the goals were, 60 pieces of content, 12 sales webinars and four closed clients or something like that.
[00:01:44]by the end of February, I was really hurting to meet. the webinars and the sales target for downpayment.gift. Partially cause I was kind of waffling on what to do price wise and how to launch it. And then, two weeks into a really liked week or 10 days into March, the kids got sent home from school and pretty much everything in our area in Northern California ceased, for.
[00:02:13] The last, what has it been? Eight weeks now? 10 weeks? I've lost track to some extent. So first week in may, all the way back, two months. Really. so the beauty of 90 day goal cycles is you can wipe the slate clean and start over. And that's why I really love. That 90 day cycle as opposed to annual goals.
[00:02:39] I think if he sit down and create goals in the beginning of January, by midway through the year, you've blown through a them, those goals may not even be what you care about. And, and it's just a kind of a failed construct. So I've always been a big believer in the 90 day, goal cycle. and setting goals that are achievable and tangible and measurable.
[00:03:04]but in any case, I have not sat down to construct what the goals would be for, Q2 really only got two months left cause April was kind of a wash with that, with respect to that I accomplished a lot, but not. specifically around, two or three tangible goals.
[00:03:26] So there'll be a feature, mileposts where I actually lay out what the goal is for a Q2 to enrolling those into a Q 3. If nothing changes. At the end of February. Actually at the end of January, even, I was kind of musing about flattening the price model for downpayment.gift, going to a, a purely SaaS model with no productized service, and, you know, really, Simplifying the pricing model. Well, things have changed a little bit with covid-19 because weddings have virtually ground to a halt. No one's getting married. No one's having services. No one's having ceremonies. Some people are are continuing to get married. Others just postponing them entirely. And of course the real estate market and the mortgage market kind of went into a tailspin in mid, mid to late March. So trying to sell into that chaos is just a recipe for disaster. And so I did what most people. Would do in this situation, which when they see a train wreck, which is to a watch to see when the train wreck stops. So it hasn't quite stopped yet, but it's slowed down.
[00:04:49] It's certainly, more, you know, it's, it's, it's less chaotic, I guess, but, You know, the forbearance crisis that's occurring in the mortgage market is still going on in the U S and we're, we're, we haven't seen a whole lot of data yet for forbearance requests in may. We know how many mortgages went into forbearance, which is a mechanism to forestall foreclosure.
[00:05:17] That's part of the CARES act passed in the very end of May. So we don't know exactly how a mortgage companies are gonna fare with, with all of that going on. And we know that it's very much a refi market rates low. It's a lot of, a lot of craziness has occurred in the market in two months. So coming in and talking about purchases and.
[00:05:44] You know, engaged couples that want to buy a house and so forth, not going to be well received, and then promoting that to brides and grooms when they've just, you know. Canceled their wedding because of social distancing, not gonna work either. So the new plan going forward, and I've kind of sat on my hands for a month just to make sure, cause I thought April, beginning of April, it's going to go great guns into this in Q2 and just basically, To zero it out and just say it's free, right? You can have accounts on downpayment.gift with unlimited registries and it's going to be free through the end of June, potentially extending that through the end of the summer or the end of September. and then try to get some customer development going, some good old fashioned discussions with people using the platform.
[00:06:35] And then go from there. But removing the sort of non-scalable productized service component of running ads to couples, all in all, we've, we did, I mean, I did see some encouraging signs to, saw someone sign up just organically for a registry, which is kind of blew my mind because we haven't done any PR or any links or nothing to, to say, Hey, this exists.
[00:07:01] There's a lot of, kind of things that make sense, around down payment registries in the new, new, the new normal, if you will. People are less likely to want to. use a Honeyfund to plan an exotic, vacation to the far East or to Bali or wherever, for their honeymoon because no one's traveling.
[00:07:27] So you're not gonna purchase travel, for your honeymoon. So Honeyfund as far as their core namesake value proposition has kind of squashed. And there's kind of kind of a general, I don't want to say a malaise around, minimalism and stuff that make a traditional registry maybe a little less palatable for many couples in this environment where they're like, do I really need a bunch of stuff if I don't have a house or a place to store it?
[00:07:55]maybe I would prefer just to sock away some cash and. You know, allow my wedding party, my friends and family to help put us in a better position financially heading into 2020 2021 and so forth. Especially if people have lost their job or a fear of losing their job. The idea that they would go blow a huge honeymoon or get 10 grand worth of dishes and pots and pans and so forth if they don't have a house yet. So in any case, so there's, the whole minimalism, and trend is unchanged, but I think it maybe has more teeth, going into Corona virus and everything that you read and rationalize about is that a couple in this day and age, more than ever would want a home.
[00:08:52] And, you know, to be in together themselves and not in an apartment building or apartment complex. you know, if you're going to shelter in place, it's better to have a little more space in a house than it is a tiny apartment. So, I think the, the tailwinds for housing as far as people wanting to own own a home probably are going to be stronger than ever coming out of this because it was not, it wasn't, this was not a people falling out of love with their house type deal like it was in 2007 2008 and 2009 with the mortgage foreclosure crisis.
[00:09:33] So in any case, with down payment gift, just to sum it up, the plan is to, is a, is to keep that. Initial free one registry unlimited for life plan there, but basically dropped the monthly two 49 bucks to 50 bucks basically, and to, remove any purchase. Options and allow mortgage lenders to sign up for free, to have something new and interesting to talk to, to the referral partners and to other members of the community and, know that, .
[00:10:09]we're going to want to do some customer development, get some feedback, and do some interviews and then layer in the productized service and ads component, going forward. but if somebody wanted to purchase, , so it's free. , how long we keep it free, and whether we grandfather people in that create an account to make it free, a little bit uncertain.
[00:10:32] We will. When people, sign up for paid accounts, the leads that come in organically or through our directed paid, obviously we'll go to their accounts, and not just randomly to others. the pricing model is a little bit up in the air as far as how to layer on the productized service around ads, but I think we'll figure it out.
[00:10:55] I think looking at this $50 a month idea is very feasible. $600 a year, or maybe like 400 a year or something like that on an annual, deal where it's 30% off or something like that. Maybe less than that, but initially. 400 a year, you could even, you know, we might even layer in some specials where if it's free through the end of September, and if you get success and you feel that you want to continue with it, $300 a year or something like that based on, a year added to September or, you know, some, some kind of price pricing mechanism to encourage some early buyers.
[00:11:37] And then to layer in the ads components and adds packages later. So that's the plan going forward. so, you know, it's kind of kneecapped, a lot of the discussions and thoughts that we had, mostly because of the chaos that occurred in the mortgage market on one side and then the chaos that occurred on the wedding side in the sense that nobody's getting married.
[00:11:59] I have another. app called ciderr two r's, which is a wedding photography crowdfunding application. And that has the revenue on that has fallen very precipitously. I mean, this is an app that's been around over eight years. I think it originally caught steam, got some traction in 2012, 2014 integrates with wepay Braintree, Stripe, and so on, works in a number of different countries as well as the U S but a wedding photographers, are virtually, on hold right now, so they're not going to pay for a nice to have feature.
[00:12:36] So we're looking at, just trying to help that market out by giving them, you know, giving them ciderr the next 18 months or so, and then just taking a wholesale look at the pricing plans, which I haven't changed since I took over the app in late 2016. just to transition out of pricing and product misery discussions.
[00:12:54] I did spend some interesting time on ciderr. and part of the reason I got so excited about a lot of these Ruby apps is wanting to learn Ruby on rails and learn how to program in Ruby. And, so ciderr I got up. Everything up and running. After a couple of days of work on my Mac, trying to get all the old legacy, Ruby, libraries loaded and the old, rails stuff that this thing is working with.
[00:13:22] Cause it's a couple of versions behind on the rails. Libraries. Also, I could patch one braintree gem. One SDK that was set to expire on May 1st I think the certificate that they reference in there expires on May 12th or something like that, which basically would mean that we couldn't charge any customers going forward.
[00:13:47] So it was relatively important. So, long story short, got the thing running. Got some other updates, pushed some, some things to get and, github and got it working on the production servers, cross our fingers that, everything works there. But, good times. you know, one of the other dev ops, kind of going out of order on my, my plan here one of the other dev ops things that I ended up working on was.
[00:14:16]working on a Ruby app that I have called spendful, which is free app. that basically is a budgeting app that does not synchronize with your, banks. It's not one that like a mint that downloads all your data and presents it and you to graph it, chart it, you know, twist it and so forth. Spendful is all about you saying, here's what I start with at the end of the month.
[00:14:42] And. Kind of doing a Dave Ramsey style, segmenting your, your core expenses, and then going month in, month out and see how you did, where you actually have to recognize what you're spending money on. So spendful.com. so I spent some time working on that. partially because Heroku said they're going to.
[00:15:01] End of life, the stack that it's running on, although because of corona virus, they push that change out to November. But I did, get in there and make some changes around the email sending. And there was one other thing. What was it? I can't remember now that, there was something else, I can't even remember.
[00:15:26] Maybe it was SSL. I think that's what it was, a combination of things, that, needed to be addressed but haven't done a whole lot of, you know, big, big changes. But, you know, got it. Pulled down, able to push changes up to Heroku. That's such a unique platform. I wish I had learned more about Heroku early on, cause I think it speeds your development.
[00:15:48]Locally, because I know on the one app in particular, wish I was using that. But you know, the criticism from developers is that it does not scale up well, price wise. So. but no worries. So SPENDFUL is a free app, but it does ask you to pay like a dollar a month or something like that. Or the original developer was in the UK, so it's like one pound a month or something like that.
[00:16:14] We actually had some subscribers for awhile, although I, canceled billing on everything awhile back. So the plan is to, is to get that going and, kind of update, freshen it up a little bit and see if we can't make that a useful tool for people that want a free, simple budgeting app. so spendful.com.
[00:16:37]so what else on the dev ops side of things? yes, some time, on, The sister app for downpayment.gift, which is called OurBridalFund, which is a PHP app, which is written, I think it's written in the cake PHP framework, which is kind of like an older style model view controller framework. I took this over from a guy that written a few different crowdfunding apps and this one included.
[00:17:05] And, Kind of just sat on. It integrates with, wepay, which backs GoFundme. So during this lockdown shelter in place, spent some time looking at ourbridalfund and trying to figure out. What to do to improve it, to make it better, to stoke some signups cause it's got very little promotion but occasionally gets signups.
[00:17:29] And I realized that although I had rolled the, we pay keys when I first took it over from the sky, John. there was a development versus production key that was flipped fall. So it was not in production mode as far as which we pay keys to reference in production. And I just wanted to shout and pound my head on the wall.
[00:17:55] I can't believe for 10 months. Almost a year. This thing has been sitting out there just stalling out and someone signed up and wanted to sync their bank account, create a registry. They really just couldn't do it. It just wouldn't work. Now, I don't know how many people we missed out on actually having it work.
[00:18:17]the app is set up to try to take a couple percent override on the, we pay transactions, but I don't think it was working. I think that may be made a little bit of revenue when they were doing some paid promotion. Our plan was to zero out the cost and have it focus on kind of the down payment type structure and, not as kind of an alternate cash fund.
[00:18:45] For partially because if you, when you're out there doing this kind of cash fund, it's just a magnet for, for money laundering and other, you know, identity theft, credit card, fraud type things. So it, it's a challenging business to manage at scale because of that. And, you know, go fund me charges 15%, but they're always dealing with fraud.
[00:19:06] Can you imagine having a kind of open. Crowd funding app where people could sign up, create it, and start donating to themselves with a stolen identities and stolen credit cards. And, not a good, model. so in any case, there's, there's some interesting things that need to occur, but man, I could not believe that.
[00:19:26] I mean, what a rookie mistake to not notice that flag, that brings up another thing on ciderr. And, While we're in the confessions section of this mileposts update, I realized that ciderr was not sending transaction emails and I wasn't even sitting there. It just sort of came to me and if anyone has been using, You know, different transaction email providers like a SendGrid and so forth. If they're familiar with mandrill, they might remember when mandrill was allowed to be used on its own without, Without a MailChimp account. And then, several years back, MailChimp came along and said, from now on, you have to have a MailChimp account.
[00:20:11] We're not alone use mandrill without having MailChimp. And that got rid of a lot of spammers. I think that we're using mandrill to send spam. That was my hunch as to why they did it. sort of, it basically raised the price, kicked out a lot of customers that were trying to use mandrill as a backend for marketing efforts that were maybe not the best for the, IP and SMTP reputation of MailChimp's servers and mandrel servers and any case, cider used uses rather MailChimp and mandrill.
[00:20:50] So ponder that for a second and then we'll pause a come back. I just remembered what was wrong with spendful, and that was, it was using mandrill to send emails, so it wasn't sending emails, which was driving me crazy. I was trying to use it for something and make some updates inside Heroku.
[00:21:09] And Came to the conclusion that it was still trying to use mandrill despite not having a functioning mandrill trial account anymore. So I switched it over to, what is it? Mail post SparkPost mail mailjet is what it's on right now. So I switched over to mailjet. That was the major, achievement.
[00:21:28] But I don't know if I discovered this manual thing before or after, I discovered it on ciderr. I can't remember now. It's all all blur. But go back to the late summer. I actually pulled the plug on the MailChimp account. Basically, MailChimp allows you to pause or suspend. The billing on an account, so it'll keep collecting emails.
[00:21:53] It'll keep all the emails, but you can't send emails. So I'm like, great idea. I'm not sending any emails to the ciderr list. Anyway, pause. I was trying to figure out how to reduce expenses on some of these marginal apps that I've got on the sides of all these side project type apps. So I, you know, nobody was using Zendesk as well, so I killed Zendesk and, and you know.
[00:22:17] Killed MailChimp, put it on pause rather. But lo and behold, it's using mandrill for transaction emails, and it basically crippled the app for some number of months and went virtually undetected. Now, there may be messages. Buried in in the inbox complaining that they're unable to log in or whatever. Who the hell knows?
[00:22:45] I don't know. I don't even want to know. but I'm just so embarrassed that I made that oversight when I paused ciderr's, MailChimp. So I went in there unpaused it. Poked at it a little bit. Maybe reset the app server Ruby on rails, passenger app server, and it's from back to life, has started sending emails again and you could see them in the dashboard in mandrill and I wanted to pound my head on the microphone anyway.
[00:23:15]what other confessions can I make? Since we're in a, we're in a confessions mood. that's a, that's, I will just leave it at that. I'm sure there's something else. But, I was listening to another podcast and the guy who talked about, kind of a bonehead mistake he made on a pricing page. I thought to myself, that's nothing.
[00:23:35] I've got ya. A couple of times with, with the, production key. issue and the, just kind of disabling all the transaction emails and not knowing it, just, just bonehead moves. But anyway, you live and you learn, the, the rest of the year and going forward, I'm trying to do more QA and less cowboy coding and, and focus on customer support.
[00:23:57] The one thing that. We'll pull things out is to, you know, for me, is to really focus on, who's using the apps I've got, and, and trying to provide them excellent customer service and try to solve their problems and stop kind of adding and building shiny new objects and adding complexity. So, Look, I'm looking forward to embracing kind of the Steve Blank customer development approach going forward.
[00:24:31] So let's talk about staying at home with kids. Well, anyway, stay at home with kids, with your wife down the hall or on the corner is not conducive to self motivation. It's not conducive to getting any shit done. End of story period. Exclamation point. so our kids have adjusted okay. To doing the whole kind of school at home.
[00:24:53]Google classroom. We've got a bunch of Chromebooks floating around. We'll get to Chromebooks floating around. We had a Mac ook Air that's kind of gone with fritz. I think the battery's dying. And, another windows 10 laptop and an iPad. And, and, you know, so they're on zoom every day at different times.
[00:25:14] They've got. Dance classes, they're now held via zoom. They've got piano lessons being held over the phone. So it's an adjustment. And my wife is a hard at work trying to keep the plates spinning on all her legal crap. even though the courthouses are virtually close, if you will, it's a lot of. You know, doing recorded depositions , over the phone from home.
[00:25:43] Stressful enough. So she's pulling tons hours trying to get stuff done. And I've ended up being kind of the schedule keeper to try out what time is your call? What time is your call? Cause you know, a nine year old kid does not carry a Palm pilot to tell them what time to jump on their call. So, and of course the 12 now, 13 year old kid gets really freaking irritated when you ask them what time their calls are.
[00:26:09] So it's been, stressful, not super conducive to a lot of self motivation, have gotten a lot of this kind of hacky kind of work a little bit, you know. Schedule based dev ops type work. A little bit of programming done. And that's actually great. not as much marketing, video creation, content creation, and kind of creative focus time.
[00:26:33] But that is, that'll change going forward. So I'm, I'm super optimistic. I mean, I'll talk a little bit about. kinda getting our proverbial S H I T together, in March, I spent a lot of time working on personal finances in January and February. Now, a lot of time, but a little bit of time.
[00:26:54] And then just started. You know, making quick decisions and getting things restructured. So we're running lean and mean now do a little bit better, but things are less stressful now coming into early April than they were at the end of February, early March. and, you know, knock on wood. This whole economy will come back to life and, and things won't be nearly as bad.
[00:27:19] But, you know, a little worried, a little worried about the uncertainty. But I think with that uncertainty comes some opportunities. And I think in a future episode, I've got some musings on what I learned in the .com bubble, the mistakes I made and how I let that. Really, I mean, the, what I did from 2000 2003 and the mistake I made, I think, mistakes that compounded in 2002 in 2003, really, hurt me for the next five years .
[00:27:57]and. If you're running a business in this corona virus, period and things aren't going well, you can't just keep grinding away at it, hoping it's going to get better. And, you got to, move fast and pivot and try to make it work. So business that wasn't working before, if it's suddenly working, then great.
[00:28:17] If it's, if it's not working, the decision to. give up on it, has to be quick. And, yeah. So having seen a couple of stark downturns, a lot of people. Nowadays, we're not even working in 2000 2001 around the .com bubble burst. And so I got some interesting stories about that cause I was doing the startup thing back then and I'll tell those another time.
[00:28:44] having seen that face to face as well as spending a lot of time. in the mortgage business starting in 2008, saw a lot of pain there and, yeah, we'll just leave it at that. So it's actually a good time to be in the mortgage business. I think that will be true as well. once.
[00:29:03] This forbearance nonsense gets sorted out. I think it'll be actually really good time to be, in housing and in mortgage. But it's going to be tough for a year or two, and I don't think it would be a great time to be a real estate agent in 2020 but I could be wrong. So I'm refocused again. Downpayment.gift, it's going to be free.
[00:29:27] Ourbridalfund's going to have some, some new options added to it, changes, some redirections and emphasis on down payment. Ciderr will probably be rolled out for 18 months for free to wedding photographers spendful will probably be flipped around, had any payment things remove and start to put some content alongside of it.
[00:29:48] But the two things that I'll talk about. As well that have gone interestingly, is that this concept that I've been working on kind of casually or informally for a couple of couple of years. and. Spent a lot of time last year talking about it. And even in YC startup school, I basically turned off my other businesses and basically pretended to be working only on this concept.
[00:30:16] And I'll just call it reviewhomes.com which is basically, it is unbiased video reviews of houses for sale. so I'm going to give this a shot and give it a test. I kind of sat on my hands in April, kinda really, you know, at the end of April, my really excited about trying to make this work and I am, so we'll give it a shot.
[00:30:39]given that the wedding business has been kind of kneecap in the mortgage business, a little bit odd right now. And a down payment gift is kind of a nice to have. review homes involves, doing picture and picture style, using things like OBS and, other gaming style, video recording software, picture and picture style, recording to do a kind of low budget video programming, YouTube, Facebook live type programming for the real estate market, but done by, Citizen reporters for lack of a, you know, the Bleacher report business model, right, of the citizen, a sports fan. so we're gonna try to get that off the ground, cause I think a lot of people are at home. Maybe a lost their job. Maybe there's people that are no longer going to be in the real estate market.
[00:31:27] They're going to drop their license. They could become reviewers in their local markets. And so our, our business model would be providing and promoting and getting sponsored, content for the hosts and doing one or two videos. in these local geographies. And there's other models that can layer on top of it, but it's, it's a, it's a media play.
[00:31:50] It's not a SaaS company. There's some software that I'm working on. But at the, at the base core of it, we're building a list of home buyers and we're building retargeting lists and we're generating tons of videos and selling sponsored ads against those videos. But it all being done and generated locally for small audiences.
[00:32:10] So, because there's kind of this potential, you know. You know, I look at it this way, it's this idea is time has come because there are going to be people that will look at this and say, for a couple thousand a month, I want to do this right? You know, I want to create YouTube videos about my local housing market.
[00:32:34] I love watching HDTV. I, you know, this is my passion about real estate, but I don't want to be a real estate agent. I'm not a mortgage lender. I just want to get on and talk about real estate. so how that flushes out. I can't explain it on a podcast. but it's something that, I think will be an interesting business overall and could. It could be very beneficial for, for those involved.
[00:32:58] the other thing that that percolated up too, I started working on this in January and it kind of put it on hold for a month and a half. And that is this guy, Josh Knox. I know in Utah who I cold email back in January when I found his podcast called iSpeakFSBO.
[00:33:17] I speak FSBO. And he did 90 episodes on anchor of a podcast, talking about how to sell your home without a real estate agent. Now he's a former real estate agent, and he was doing this podcast to try to promote and sell a course, a course being, you know, a kind of an eCourse, like a click funnels kind of, type deal.
[00:33:40] And so he had a course called the commission cure. So basically approached them about licensing or buying it, as opposed to, you know, he obviously had huge dreams about helping all these, would be home sellers to save thousands, by doing it themselves and to get educated via a course. And it was just too slow to uptick.
[00:34:01] And, Didn't make any money. And, he put a ton of time, probably six months solid into creating these, you know, 25 plus course videos. So there's like 20 or 30 hours of course videos 90. Podcasts, episodes, and a bunch of other texts and PDF content. So I approached him. Basically, we licensed it for a kind of a royalty schema, so as people sign up for the course, so we'll own and the podcast, and.
[00:34:31]we'll be able to use that content to drive people to sign up for the course. Well, when they sign up for the course and become users and members of that course, that community, we may rename it from the commission cure to something else, I was looking at, at another kind of a concept run start by owner, you know, encouraging everyone to start selling it by owner first because they may get a quick offer and accomplish their goals without having to pay 6% to an agent. And I've got an app as well called homesbysocial, which is all about getting home sellers to list their home.
[00:35:11] If you will create an entry on this website and, market it on social media and use, other. Players like title companies, escrow companies, and mortgage companies to help pay for that advertising, to allow them to use Facebook ads to help sell their house and basically be an intermediary, as an alternate to a sign in the yard or, an ad in the newspaper.
[00:35:37]so homebysocial is the SaaS product to sell alongside this, information product. So, got Josh on board and have all that content and been working through it and spent some time trying to get it, put into a e-learning system or LMS system and, drive signups to it and so forth, and trying to figure out how to, how to do that.
[00:35:59] So, and also make sure that as people sign up for that course, which we think they will, And as we start to use that podcast feed, beneficially, how do we. Make sure that that expense doesn't run too far ahead of the revenue generated by the app itself. So excited to work on that as well. So, and again, weddings kind of on downswing.
[00:36:28] So downpayment.gift, maybe a little bit harder to sell as we thought a month or two ago. But as a lot of uncertainty occurs in the home sales market, both on the buyer and seller side, and we can have a debate on that another time. the need to potentially sell by owner is going to be even greater.
[00:36:52]so to save on commission, and you know, if the market does start to slide down a little bit or trade sideways, or even drops substantially, so. Right now, there's just less activity. And to some extent there's a supply issue, which could favor sellers because nobody's listing their house. And there are a handful of still interested buyers, but at the same time, a lot of the buyers have disappeared because of the uncertainty and job issues or employment issues.
[00:37:21] So, I got one of the things I was going to talk about, I think I'll save that for another episode cause I've talked for. 40 minutes straight, which is what happens when you don't record a podcast for two months.
[00:37:39] I do want to start again. I mentioned the Martian and doing kind of face to camera updates. I want to start doing that style of update, talking a little bit about revenue. in doing taxes for my LLC in April. revenue in 2019 was not great. Not great, not good, and a lot of places I wasn't paying attention.
[00:38:04] it went down badly. So, we need to pay attention to that and need to start reporting those figures here as part of those kind of Martian updates. All right, thanks for tuning in. Take care. Bye.